I think the recon class should stay, but due to the lethality of the sniper guns in BF4, on a crouch server, where people can't run from cover to cover, the sniper guns need to go.  It's just too easy to camp a spawn and pick off every single person with a single shot who are unable to move quickly from cover to cover.  Keep the class but get rid of the bolt-guns and I think you have a great compromise.  If you want to keep the bolt-guns, fine, but allow people to sprint from cover so they aren't out there in the open for an easy one-shot kill from a guy hiding.  

I also think getting rid of the bolt-guns will increase the variety of guns/classes on your server.  People getting killed by the one-shot guns feel the need in turn to use one to combat it until half of the server are recon guys have sniper duels.  The result is a boring server that drives people away.

Keep recon, ditch the bolt-guns!

TwoFour wrote (View Post):

Unfortunately, you WILL lose more BK if no Recon is allowed.

 That's a conversation for a different section of the forums.  I will only say this: somebody is always going to be unhappy about something.  Take me for example, I am unhappy about everything and anything.  Especially getting shot.  Stupid bullets.

New rule: You guys can use whatever weapons you want, but you can only aim at the ground.  Meanwhile I get to kill everything I see.  Good yeah?

Since the bolt-action rifles are the problem, and I dint; see it being any more difficult to disallow them than it is for disallowing the class, altogether. For some reason, I'm not a big of of crouching play in BF4, though I was looking at the chat during many of those 24 hours and the feedback from guests was more positive than negative. The pool results here reflect this, though there are many BK that don't frequent the forums as much as our servers. So the results may not reflect the majority.

I like the idea of an IMF-type schedule through the week, but IMF and SG Fridays wer introduced after we already had a pretty solid following, and this made it far easier to police than it would be if the games were fresh. Maybe we could try it in a few months. With so many players new to BK and Crouch play, adding a sometimes confusing schedule will just add to guests' discombobulation (yay, a chance to use that word) about our rules.

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-- Of all the soles I've ever tasted, his had the most   ....cumin. --

The CROUCH + NO RECON got lots of replies already as well as votes.

The general consensus was not an issue with the Class (RECON) but the sniper rifle that is a one shot kill.

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The problem:

Sniper Rifles are the only weapon that is a one shot kill at range (hardcore server setting is 60 health). Max damage of 100-110 and distance falls down to the lowest of 59+.  While normally sniper rifles are not a problem, on a smaller map, crouch server, they are frequently used as hip-fire and cqb weapons, because of their awesome one shot kill on hard core servers. This has cause much concerns for players on the crouch server with the vast majority of players using sniper rifles in this fashion. Leader boards have been dominated by the sniper class.

Note - DMRs and Shotguns (with slugs) do not have the same max damage at range (30-38 respectively), making them a two shot kills. Shotguns also had their scopes depowered down to 4x max - nerfing the weapon from Bad Company and BF3 considerably.

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Assessment:

Snipers do not dominate in regular game play because maps are bigger, there are vehicles, and you have the ability to RUN. However, on a crouch server people move slowly, there are no vehicles to smoke out snipers, and there is no way to avoid each other on the smaller maps. Frankly if you are not playing with a sniper rifle, you are at a disadvantage for the most part. Hip firing a one-shot kill means anyone else can't get off enough rounds to make a difference. Frequently I die and I see that ONE of my non-sniper bullets did damage, but one bullet is not enough against the sniper round.  It's about quick draw, and the sniper will always win if they get the drop (no chance to run, shoot back, dive for cover, or heal). Also remember the velocity and rate of fire can make a difference as well. Note: I have yet to play with a sniper rifle (on the 32 man), perhaps I am a gluten for punishment.

While the easy, perhaps wrong, way to go about this was to try a 24 hour ban on RECON, it left some people with legitimate concerns - namely the other valuable perks of RECON were no longer available.

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Solution:

There is a system in which the server can monitor and auto-warn against certain weapons used. One server, the Pistol Server, auto warns and subsequently kicks those that disobey, from using any weapon other than a pistol. Fire a shotgun or rifle, you get a warning, a couple more, you are kicked.

This system could be adopted for a Crouch Server that would allow ALL Classes to play, but only auto warn when a sniper rifle is used.

If it is possible (which it seems to be) should it be considered and would you play on it?

Please Note: I am not opposed to snipers or sniper rifles in general, this poll is only for suggesting a CROUCH only, small map server to auto warn/kick those using a sniper rifle, while allowing them to play any class.

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TwoFour wrote (View Post):

Unfortunately, you WILL lose more BK if no Recon is not allowed.

See my responses about the no snipers and also review my other post Crouch + No Sniper Rifles.

I agree - not allowing RECON is punishing a CLASS, not the weapon.

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I thinking it is silly to cut any part of the game before all the maps have been released.

if you want to do a special day off and on cool.

Also I was getting killing from one shot  just as much as I was with recon still in this past weekend.  

Just my perspection of reality.  
Everyone has a different one.

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I thinking it is silly to cut any part of the game before all the maps have been released.

if you want to do a special day off and on cool.

Also I was getting killing from one shot  just as much as I was with recon still in this past weekend.  

Just my perspection of reality.  
Everyone has a different one.

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Silexx wrote (View Post):

TwoFour wrote (View Post):

Unfortunately, you WILL lose more BK if no Recon is not allowed.

See my responses about the no snipers and also review my other post Crouch + No Sniper Rifles.

I agree - not allowing RECON is punishing a CLASS, not the weapon.

Thanks Silexx, maybe Tet should read this too.
Oh wait, you will.
This is not me, but Tet really think about what you are saying before you "print" it.
I will find another place to play if this situation is not resolved soon.
Good for you Tet, good for you.

All weapons all perks

And bolts may be one shot kill but lets add to that list All rockets, most nades,  UCAV, SUAV, shotguns depending on the loads and range, carbines and assault rifles on burst or with a decent trigger control out to med-long.  no point going on  ..its part of the game.  DO I find it annoying when ppl only use sniper/bolt?  yes but would I tell them how to enjoy the game no.   People can say it was the day of the week but w/o having access to the state for the server I saw attendance down thru the event not up.  I usually sit in a 1-2 person que to get in not since Sat have I had to wait.  Also with all the back and forth on all the rules we are losing ppl who get confused or frustrated before even knowing whether they like our core rules.  My K/D has doubled without snipers and my favourite class is support ( I hate running out of ammo and begging strangers to drop a bag )   As for supporting the ban its like most things in politics I think its a vocal MINORITY thats gets most of the attention.  The rest of us just want to play and enjoy the game without all this crying and drama.  If you dont want to die its easy dont play.

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All I have to say is..............WORLD...AT...WAR!!!!


REFORM

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PEOPLE FEAR.........what they dont understand.

TwoFour wrote (View Post):

Silexx wrote (View Post):

TwoFour wrote (View Post):

Unfortunately, you WILL lose more BK if no Recon is not allowed.

See my responses about the no snipers and also review my other post Crouch + No Sniper Rifles.

I agree - not allowing RECON is punishing a CLASS, not the weapon.

Thanks Silexx, maybe Tet should read this too.
Oh wait, you will.
This is not me, but Tet really think about what you are saying before you "print" it.
I will find another place to play if this situation is not resolved soon.
Good for you Tet, good for you.

Not sure what you are on about...

Rephrasing for clarity. What did I say to make you upset with me?

I like our clan because we have been an all weapons/perk clan...even though I don't like the tubes or rockets in CoD... but that's part of the game play.. we have never limited those... so I don't see y we are limited in bf4..i hated all the snipers at first...but then I just sniping too and using one of my favorite weapons..the shotty.  I see most that post in hear don't want the recon class gone...but the poll says the opposite.   I wonder what the outcome will be.. the voice of the poll or the voice of the forum?

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I just don't see how we can justify placing such a large restriction on the BK server. A perk, a weapon, pistol walking...an entire class with ribbons, medals ext. is just far too much. As much as I find EVERYONE on the entire server being a sniper most of the time, I don't want them to be force to another server, a non-BK server. It's just bad business all around. I think that the sniper problem will calm down once we get some much smaller maps to make shotguns and pistols more viable. Plus, there will be nerfs and changes to gameplay, there always is. I think we should be careful in the changes we make considering the ever changing nature of the game.

My meek opinion.

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Overall I enjoy playing with no recon significantly more than how it was before.  The PLD was just as big of a problem as the bolt action sniper rifles imo, and you put them together and they are simply a broken combo on a crouch server.  PLD lets you see enemies up to what 400 yards away, through any non solid cover?  Put the PLD target on an enemy, swap weapons BANG insta free kill, and half the time the enemy couldn't even see you.  And then the fact that 75%+ of the players on the server at any given time were using said combo, and part of those players were bad about abusing it to camp known spawn locations the ENTIRE match...  It made for a VERY frustrating gaming experience.  (Its pretty obvious how OP the combo was now that since the change, quite a few players went support with a DMR and  the XM-25 as a weaker PLD to try and replicate it.)  But that being said, I dislike the idea of banning an entire kit, however I wouldn't mind seeing it limited to 1 possibly 2 recon per team max.

If BK is just going to do what EVERY OTHER server does then why bother at all?

What makes BK unique and what has made BK last this long is that it creates rules and manages servers that are NOT what everyone else is doing.
Crouch servers, special weekends (shotguns only, no rocket nades, etc.)

I, like many BK members, don't EXCLUSIVE play at BK - but the reason we keep coming back to BK is because it offers something different. A few post that if BK is not going to allow everything then they will play elsewhere. I find that silly, only because if BK would allow everything then why play at BK to begin with.

Additionally there are many BK players that don't play on the CROUCH server, they don't like to crouch in BF4 and they prefer the full servers with running and vehicles. So should not this question pertain to those that DO want to play on the CROUCH server?

The unfortunate reality is that BK can't make everyone happy all the time. Sure there are rules that I don't like as much as the next person, but since this is a community of players and the reason we donate money to the server is that we want to create something different and not just be like the next server.

BK has been known as the CROUCH servers in the FPS community. That's what makes us unique. Personally I am not sure why we even have a run-n-gun full 64 man server like everyone else, perhaps only so that BK members can play together. However, I have played on other servers with BK members (and a lot of them) that were not BK servers. It is certainly nice that the server 2 doesn't really need much administration - only language for the most part. So managing server 1 is certainly more of a hassle.

I hope that BK keeps the CROUCH server - it is the only BF4 crouch server that I am aware of.
However, because of the damage models of weapons it has turned into a sniper only server. Watch your deaths, odds are you are killed by a sniper rifle and in most cases at such short distance they can either hip fire or don't need a scope. No doubt the sniper rifle's damage model of a one shot kill on hard core makes it the weapon of choice for the vast majority of players. Personally I think this argument would be the same if Shotguns or DMRs had the same one-shot kill, but they don't.

My issue isn't RECON or any one particular weapon, such as the sniper rifle. The issue is about the damage model of any primary direct fire weapon that can be a hip-fire cqb one shot kill at any range. We have already heard complaints about certain maps, like the one with the hotel in which snipers just sit on the roof and pick off anyone.  Again - normally that would be a problem in a normal server with helicopters, planes, tanks, running, and bigger maps - you could take out the top of the building and snipers would be gone.

Of course anyone that likes sitting on top of that hotel with their sniper rifle and shooting ducks in a barrel will disagree. Yeah, I am sure it is fun - but at what expense. Eventually it is a race with a sniper rifle as to who can get to the top of the hotel first.

Perhaps the answer is that we have another server if there is enough requests for it and that also means more money. I am willing to pony up if that is the case.

For now I hope this situation is taken seriously, obviously it has lots of posts and votes - so there are strong feelings on both sides. Which is GREAT NEWS that there is so much interest over the CROUCH server.

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